He is always busy as a bee. That is because of his position, the Labor Minister. Maxim Topilin, the biggest workaholic, sets an example for the whole country: he reports for work on time and he is the last to go home. He works on Saturdays, which makes our meeting “a window” in his packed Saturday schedule “made” through hard work (we really cannot do without this word when speaking about Topilin). He seems to be glad not to speak about work, just for a change, but that cannot be avoided wholly. The minister drank coffee, showed a video of his senior daughter Marusya’s song and tried on boxing gloves with a For Labour inscription (and gave one of them to the MK special correspondent as a gift) in the interview timeout.

How much does “the main worker of the country” make, how does he catch “drive” and what superstitions does he have? All this and lots more says Maxim TOPILIN in the exclusive interview with MK.

— Maxim Anatolyevich, Russian people really do not like to work. We have so many proverbs, sayings and anecdotes about it. Do you think this is a stereotype or a national trait?

— I disagree. The Russians are one of the most industrious nations in the world. Take a look at the Europeans: they work much less than we do. You won’t see anyone running with papers down the corridor in a foreign ministry or a commercial company’s office. They take their time, go out for lunch on time and do not work extra hours. And some people here do not even have a normal lunch, not to mention the rest.

— Is that good? Is not that because we are unable to organize our working hours?

— A lack of organization is not the point. Our civil servants have much more tasks and directives than their foreign colleagues. The same happens in business, art and science. Russia is living through a transitional period; it has no time to drag feet – we need to catch up as long as we have a chance. But this does not mean we should take no rest at all. Simply we cannot afford 17 working hours a week. Same as we cannot afford four working days a week (I recently read an article about some people in Europe who go to join their families living in the countryside on Thursday evening).

— But the more a person rests the better he works...

— Quality of rest is more important than duration. Quality rest is important. As for the efficiency, it all depends on the person’s ability or disability to handle the job. New ideas and constant progress are the most important. If you catch drive you may last longer and need less time for rest because your work will bring you satisfaction! But if the job is wrong, results will be low even if you take enough rest.

— Do you catch drive in your work?

— Certainly! For example, that happens when I promote new initiatives. I charge up when I win a victory, when I prove my standpoint or when I carry my point to the colleagues.

— It seems to me that you hardly support the idea to cut the working day so that people give more attention to themselves, sport, family and creation.

— Frankly, there are no such plans. But look: Russia has 118 days off and holidays this year. Is that not enough? It is even more than in Europe. Somebody has said February 25 was stolen this year. Yes, we were supposed to rest by the law, but that day was attached to the May holidays so that people could spend more time at their dachas.

— And how do you rest? Skis, baths or sea?

— My family and I try to go to the seaside once a year. I do not ski but I always skate during winter holidays together with my senior daughter. I exercise for five minutes every morning. I understand that this is not enough but, unfortunately, cannot do more.

— And how do you relax during the working day? Do you have a relaxing massaging chair? You press a button and...

— Nothing of the sort. The working day is a drum that goes round and round.

— Do you often go on sick leave?

— Practically never, although I was on a three-day sick leave lately – I got the flu.

— Do you obtain your sick leave just like average citizens?

— Yes, like everybody else.

— Certain companies deny sick leaves to their employees. Clearly, that is illegal but people are afraid of complaining.

— If you want our rights to be observed you have to stand up for them. There are labor inspectorates and there are courts. We finally should live by the rules.

First money earned at potato farm

— And still I am interested how much does the labor minister love his job?

— I have been doing this for practically my entire life. If I had not loved it so much I would have hardly stayed and achieved anything.

— So this is the cause of your life?

— It just happened, I did not plan anything.

— And how did it begin? Do you remember the first day of your career?

— It was August 1, 1988, at the Labor Research Institute. I was an intern there and they invited me to work for them. I remember doing some calculations in tables on the first working day. That was the payroll department. I still meet my first boss from time to time.

— How did you spend your first cash?

— The very first one? I earned it at a potato farm in my school years. Oddly, we made rather much money there. Our team was not working on a field, we were sent to a huge bunker to unload potato sacks. It was an awful job; we had to wear respirators to protect us against dust, the place was dirty and ice cold. We earned slightly more than 200 rubles within a month.

— That was a fortune back then!

— Right. I remember that I kept 50 rubles for myself and gave the rest to the parents.

— How did you spend your first salary at the Labor Research Institute?

— Honestly, I do not remember. It was not very large, 140 rubles, not enough to show off. We started to conclude contracts later on (enterprises switched to self-financing and needed specialists to calculate new payroll formulas) and that paid rather well although I could not afford a car.

— Forgive me for asking an impolite question but I am sure the Russians want to know how much the labor minister makes.

— This is not a secret. My salary is 180,000 rubles plus occasional bonuses.

— Does your wife make more money than you do?

— Yes.

— Did that ever embarrass you?

— It did before but not now. We have different periods in our life together.

— You must have met with your wife at work. Did you?

— No, we lived in the same apartment block in the Yasenevo district. I met her when I was a tenth-grade student. True, we went to different schools.

— Is she also a workaholic? You must be two peas in a pod...

— Yes, we really are. She did not even go on maternity leave when she gave birth to our first and second children. She went back to work in two months. But she has a different schedule and can come home much earlier than me. She does a lot at home on-line.

— Still when does your working day begin and how long does it last? Ministry security guards “complain” that you leave after midnight.

— As a rule, I come to the office by 9:30 a.m. I leave at different hours, but most often at 1:00 a.m.

— Does it mean you do not see your daughters on working days? You go to work they are still asleep, and they are already asleep when you come back...

— I see my senior daughter sometimes or even bring her to her nursery school. Also she phones me at about 9:00 p.m. before going to bed. That is her ritual: she calls her daddy, grandpa and grandma to tell them about her day and to wish them goodnight. One day, Sunday, is sacred for us. We can sleep late, have breakfast together, go for a walk, read and go somewhere. If I have to go on a business trip on Sunday my wife is angry. Actually, neither she, nor parents nor children like my constant absence from home. But that has started a long time ago, and they take it for granted.

— Did your daughters congratulate you on February 23?

— Marusya made a paper soldier and Martha drew a picture.

— Have your children ever been here or is your office a taboo for them?

— They came here a couple of times and ran around. Certainly, they do not quite understand that this is a ministry.

— Does your senior daughter brag about her father – a minister at the nursery school?

— No. I hope not. (Laughs)

— I had tried to find some compromising material about you but nothing popped up but a connection between your job and business successes of your wife...

— She started working for that sector (asbestos industry – correspondent) right upon graduation so it would be funny to seek a connection. Everything is transparent, we conceal nothing.

— Does your wife seek your professional advice?

— I seek her advice sometimes. And you know I am not a superstitious man but I always call her before government meetings. That is a good omen.

— Is she jealous about your work?

— No. Simply, I repeat we are accustomed to this life style. It makes our joint vacations even more valuable.

Minister sets good tone

— Was it your idea to ban indication of age limits in job offers?

— Yes and this anti-discrimination clause of the draft law gained support of everyone, both employers and trade unions. The draft law has been approved by the government. Although some say there will be no use and there will be age limits in recruitment anyway. Clearly, it’s the employer’s choice which candidate to hire and which to reject – we cannot ban anything here. But every person must know that regardless of one’s age he may come for an interview. And by the way it happens often that an employer who did not intend to hire a person older than 45 saw a specialist and changed his mind. What matters is professionalism, not age. So we say there must be no age limits in job offers. This simply cannot be done. This is a matter of courtesy. You cannot advertise cigarettes and alcohol but this does not mean that nobody buys them or drinks. By the way, it is the same about gifts to civil servants – they simply must not take them.

—You do not take them, do you?

— I try not to do that. Look, a gift given at negotiations in the West is usually a $5 flash memory card. It will never occur to anyone to present a gold watch. We should also get accustomed to tokens of attention given to civil servants (a postcard, flowers and so on) but no gifts.

— Do you like to give gifts?

— I do but that happens rarely. When I was a deputy minister I traveled more often – I have never been on a foreign trip in the ministerial capacity as yet – and no matter where I went, I always tried to buy something for my daughters. I take real pleasure in selecting gifts for them!

— Speaking of courtesy, how do you feel about civil servants defending theses?

— In my opinion, civil servants should not defend either PhD or Doctor theses. This is not right because they have different tasks and opportunities.

— But you are a PhD...

— Yes but that happened when I was still working for the Labor Research Institute.

— Back to courtesy. What do you think workers should be prohibited to do at their work places?

— Smoke, eat or drink tea. There must be appropriate time and place for everything.

— And how do you feel about corporate events?

— It is a wonderful phenomenon. Visiting events build a team. Our ministry has corporate events only on the New Year’s Eve. Naturally, the staff, not the state budget, pay their expenses.

— Would you outlaw office romance? How do you feel about it?

— I feel good about it, especially as people make families. Busy people get acquainted in the course of their work, at work, this is normal.

— Some companies bind employees they hire not to have office romance amongst other things.

— This sounds odd to me. The boss should mind the quality of work, not that.

— As you know, the atmosphere is important for labor productivity. What would the minister recommend to raise spirit of employees?

 — Personally, I try to commend people. But I also have to criticize them, I do that several times a day, and this is another stimulus. Sometimes I drop into offices and speak about life – I did that more often when I was a deputy minister. It is important to let everyone know that they are important, not just the work they are doing. To understand what they like, how to help them and let go home earlier if there are some problems…

— Do you let them go?

— Such requests are made to me personally very rarely. My deputies and department directors do not abuse this possibility because they are loyal to our work, this is their life.

— There are gossips and envious people in every office. Do you have a recipe for fighting this evil?

— If a collective has a sound core it cleanses itself. This happens rapidly and without conflicts. So everything depends on the management. Sometimes, a person may think someone is after his job but it could be fair competition. I mean each situation must be probed separately.

— Have you ever suffered at the hands of such persons?

— My work has always been very comfortable. Both at the Labor Research Institute and the Government House. Probably, because I am an even-tempered man and always try to find a common language.

“Any fines are illegal”

— Many companies fine their employees so much that nothing is left from their salaries.

— Fines are against the law. Everyone who does that is a lawbreaker and must be punished. A company may deny a bonus or give less if a person works badly but this cannot be called a fine.

— And what about warnings and reprimands?

— This is legal and rather efficient. Although I personally try not to reprimand anyone.

— Do you agree that the salary is the best incentive?

— Certainly.

— And how much do you think the Russians should be paid to their satisfaction?

— This is the question to ask them. Basically, polls show the average of 30,000-40,000 rubles.

— Let me rephrase the question: how much should a Muscovite be paid to be a janitor?

— This is a wrong way to ask the question. There is a salary market, and a janitor has a particular salary. It is a different question if Muscovites are willing to take this job. Yet I can assure you that some janitors are Muscovites.

— Does the ministry set a global objective of hiring less foreigners and using domestic labor resources more broadly?

— The population is aging in Russia, the same as in other countries, and the number of working people will decline. So, there will be lots of jobs in the future and we will simply not do without migrants. Many countries solve the problem with foreign labor migration, which is absolutely normal. But the priority in employment is naturally given to the Russians.

— But the Russians generally have negative feelings about labor migrants, not only because they misbehave sometimes but also “dump” pays.

— First of all, our unemployment levels are not very high. Secondly, nobody is dumping. There are objective salary markets in particular industries. It is a different question that foreign labor force is cheaper – employers do not have to make social and medical insurance contributions for the visitors. The Labor Ministry has drafted a package of laws, which will make equal the contributions for foreigners and Russian citizens. That will level the cost of labor force.

Speaking of unemployment, I do not see why it should grow. We will even lack labor resources for demographic reasons I have already mentioned. So we will need to recruit persons with disabilities and pensioners. By the way, the latter may receive professional training for free at job centers.

— Can’t they do that now?

— No, and we are planning to entrust regions with the powers to train them. Now such courses are available only to able-bodied citizens registered as unemployed and women taking care of children younger than 36 months. For instance, a female accountant on maternity leave wants to catch up with tax law adjustments. The courses will give her an update, help her preserve her skills and return to work being trained and therefore more confident of herself. By the way, we have raised another problem: maternity leave lasts for three years but allowances are paid for 18 months only. Hopefully, we will make our women glad soon – we are due to present our suggestions to the government on April 1.

 
— What prospect the minister may offer to people proposed to take a job that pays 5,500 rubles?

— Yes, there are such salaries. But nobody forces you to take these jobs. Certainly, people do not always find the job they want or the pay they hope for. But in the overwhelming majority of cases, excluding such areas as Ingushetia and other republics of the North Caucasus, the problem of the search for a higher paying job is solvable. Especially as a number of regions offer unemployed to move to another district or outside the region: they give resettlement benefits, accommodation and so on. Naturally, salaries will grow. Let us take, for instance, the program of raising salaries of public sector employees. The government has undertaken to enlarge salaries in the public sector by 2018.

— And how about Putin’s task to create 25 million jobs by 2020? Can you do that?

— First of all, this is the task of economic departments. There is the only way, in my opinion, investments.

— Shall we take the Chinese phenomenon for example? No matter which country you visit all goods carry a Made in China tag.

— I do not think that we should learn from China. Their unemployment rates are much higher than ours, and far from all people there have pensions. They have a different economy and a different political system. But they really attract investments correctly.

 
— Do you think we can fill the gap between Russian obsolete education and real needs of the labor market?

— Yes, but we will have to remove low-quality schools from the market and take that calmly. People should not study for the sake of a diploma. Besides, it is necessary to update requirements to specialists, who must meet the needs of contemporary employers. The Labor Ministry is already tackling this problem – trade unions, individual employers and authorities are developing professional standards at our initiative. This applies to various spheres: energy, car industry, banking, teaching and so on.

— The last question will be almost provocative. Imagine that you catch a magic pike, just like the fairy tale character Yemelya, and it is ready to grant your three wishes, both personal and, so to say, professional. What would you wish?

— My wishes are dearest, they may not come true if I tell you.

— Probably, may the Russians live for 90 years?

— 90 is too little, we need more.

— Or may everyone have large pensions?

— Yes but everyone should get as much as one earns.

— May they go on vacation abroad and look good on the European level?

— We already look normal on the European level. Yes, not everyone can afford vacations abroad but take a look at the situation we had 10 or 20 years ago. Opportunities are growing and we have to admit that. There has been progress. Salaries and pensions are growing. Not so rapidly as we may want, but everything is in our hands.

— Are you an optimist?

— Honestly, I would like to be much more optimistic.  

Источник: Moskovsky Komsomolets